
This article is the second in a series of investigative reports related to a bill now in committee in the U.S. House of Representatives. At least eleven prominent Democrats and one Republican are supporting H.R. 600, which if passed, would restore a practice that was banned just last year when congress passed the Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008.
It is a story that needs to be told… because H.R. 600 has to be STOPPED. Seller funded down payment assistance is harmful to homebuyers… harmful to taxpayers… and harmful to our nation's economy. The only people H.R. 600 helps are those that profit enormously from its passage, and a significant portion of those profits will assuredly come at the expense of the American taxpayer.
This is also a story that illustrates how corporations with deep pockets and lobbyists can spin facts, manipulate the media and intimidate bloggers. This part of the story is disturbing to say the least.
Mandelman
Our story begins with a wonderful sounding phrase… down payment assistance. It conjures up images of young, hardworking couples getting help when buying their first home. And that's precisely what down payment assistance programs are for. No one is suggesting that there's anything wrong with such programs… and no one is trying to change them.
Many government agencies, both state and federal, offer down payment assistance to qualified individuals under various circumstances, the Department of Housing & Urban Development, for example, offers dozens of them. And in addition, some nonprofit organizations, such as charities and churches also offer down payment assistance programs. The Federal Housing Administration, HUD, and the Internal Revenue Service all have rules that allow for such programs, and no one is trying to change those rules.
According to an article that appeared in Forbes Magazine on August 7, 2008:
Under present HUD rules, a home buyer can get help with the requisite 3% down payment from friends, relatives, a union, a charity or a government entity. But the money isn't supposed to come from anyone with an economic stake in the transaction. When it does, the stated transaction price is something of a fiction, and the requirement that buyers start out with positive equity is evaded. No-equity loans are a source of trouble. That's what the trillion-dollar mortgage crisis is all about.
In this country, however, there are always those looking to take advantage of loopholes in the rules especially when doing so presents an opportunity for profits… and that's where our story begins.
Roughly a decade ago, several companies decided that, since borrowers with FHA-insured loans were able to get down payment assistance from family, employers, government entities or charitable organizations, they would enter the down payment assistance market by becoming nonprofit "charitable" organizations.
The difference between these organizations and the rest, however, was that they had a plan to accept so-called "donations" from the seller of a property, and then turn around and provide a "grant" to the buyer of that property, who would use the funds to satisfy the down payment requirement on a FHA insured mortgage. For handling that transaction, these charitable organizations would receive a fee… roughly $400 -$800, according to various published sources.
Thus was born a new industry, referred to as Seller Funded Down Payment Assistance, or SFDPA.
With the housing market heating up in 2003, there were millions of people who wanted to buy homes or condos that didn't have the money to satisfy the 3% down payment requirement imposed under FHA rules. And, a seller funded down payment assistance program seemed a perfect fit.
Sellers liked SFDPA because in reality, it would cost the sellers nothing. As an example, a seller would "DONATE" $5,000 to one of the nonprofit charities offering seller funded down payment assistance, and that company would keep several hundred dollars for their trouble and give the rest to the buyer who would then use the funds to make his or her down payment. It could cost a seller nothing because he or she could simply mark up the sales price of the property by the same $5,000 and in that way recoup the "donation" that was made to the nonprofit.
Developers, who built hundreds or thousands of homes, wanted to sell them as quickly as possible, and through these types of schemes, they could be marketed as being available with "No Money Down".
Some of the nonprofit companies that offered seller financed down payment assistance became very successful, earning tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars as a result of the fees earned for handling these transactions.
Then in 2005, the General Accounting Office, or GAO, conducted a study on the loans that were initiated with seller funded down payment assistance and found that buyers who received such assistance were twice as likely to default on their loans. FHA, who insured these loans against losses, was understandably concerned and began working on a rule that would put a stop to the practice.
Additionally, the Internal Revenue Service had some questions about these nonprofit "charities" that existed to provide down payment assistance grants to home buyers, and on May 4th, 2006, the IRS released their ruling, which stated that seller funded down payment assistance providers would no longer be qualified as tax-exempt charities.
That might have been the end of the story, but the people behind these programs were not about to let a little thing like an IRS ruling stop them from operating. Some had found a loophole and were about to slip right through it.
Under FHA rules, nonprofit charities and government entities are permitted to offer down payment assistance programs. Since the seller funded down payment assistance companies could no longer operate as nonprofit charities, maybe they could become government entities? But, how? HOW, indeed.
If you look up the definition of a "government entity," you'll find that it includes:
1. Federal, state, and local governments.
2. Indian Tribal Governments.
(You can find the official definition here: http://www.irs.gov/govt/index.html)
Indian Tribal Governments are classified as "government entities," and they have all of the rights of other government entities, with the exception of three. They cannot make war. They cannot coin money. And they cannot engage in foreign relations. Other than that, they are government entities and as such are free to govern themselves.
With Native American Tribes being considered "government entities," one of the providers of seller funded down payment assistance, seeing that they could no longer operate as a nonprofit charity as a result of the IRS ruling, decided to align itself with the Penobscot Tribe of Maine. On March 6th, 2007, a company calling itself Global Direct Sales presented the Penobscot Tribe with a check for $5,000 to establish the "Fair Housing Administration," in which Global Direct Sales was the Managing Partner.
This "Fair Housing Administration," as a result of the Tribe's involvement, was considered a Government Agency and thus was allowed to provide seller funded down payment assistance grants through something called the "Grant America" program. (www.fha.dpa.com)
The Grant America Program, not being a charity, had a new scheme for providing seller funded down payment assistance.
According to their Website, the buyer would "sell" the seller on purchasing a membership in something called "The Owner's Alliance". How much would such a membership cost? Well, between 3% and 20% of the price of the seller's property, of course. Assuming the seller's property was selling for $200,000, that would make the membership in The Owner's Alliance sell for somewhere between $6,000 and $40,000.
"Wow… that must be some membership," I thought to myself. So, I went to the new government agency's Website to see what some of the benefits of The Owner's Alliance membership might be… just to see what I was missing by not being a member. The list of benefits was quite long, and included such valuable benefits as:
•Discounts at Theme Parks. •A Directory of Contractors for Home Repair. •50-75% savings on local newspapers, "delivered right to your door!" •Free Dial-up Internet Access. •Access to News, Traffic, Weather and More on the Owners Alliance Website. •A One-Week Introductory Trial Membership to the International Fitness Club Network and "the privilege of paying the club's lowest membership rate for the type of membership selected." •Local Grocery Coupons – That may be printed out as needed, •A Pet Assure Benefit that offers discounts on pet products. •Access to a network of dental providers offering discounts of 15% to 50% off of certain dental services (discounts, however, depend on the individual dental provider). •The Dining Program – Offers discounts of up to 50% at 20,000 restaurants. •Auto Pricing & Maintenance – A 10% savings on maintenance & new car pricing. •A Voice in Washington through The Owners Alliance, which claims to represent property owners across America. •A VIP Health & Wellness Benefit – Offers one-stop shopping for "top brand vitamins". •Discounts at certain chiropractors, nurse hotlines, and telephone counseling. •And much, much more!
Well, that certainly is some membership, especially when you consider that it only sells for $6,000 - $40,000, assuming, of course, you're selling your home for $200k. It takes real hubris to create a "membership" like that. It's the sign of someone who thinks they are, if not above the law… then certainly beyond scrutiny.
Meanwhile, in response to the GAO study that showed the relatively higher default rates of seller funded down payment assistance loans, HUD and the Federal Housing Administration (the real FHA) had continued their work on a rule change that would ban seller funded down payment assistance altogether.
On May 11, 2007, FHA issued a proposed rule that terminated seller funded down payment assistance. The rule became final on October 1, 2007, was scheduled to take effect on October 31, 2007. And the story might have ended there, but again, it didn't.
The country's largest providers of seller funded down payment assistance grants, including Global Direct Sales, the Genesis Program, Ameridream and the Nehemiah Corporation, all filed lawsuits against the FHA, and they were subsequently combined into a single action by the court.
As amazing as it might seem, the suit filed by the seller funded down payment assistance companies against the FHA prevailed due to procedural issues (something about FHA not having allowed for sufficient time for public debate), and on April 3, 2008 FHA's rule was vacated and remanded back to HUD.
Not to be dissuaded by the court's decision, on June 11, 2008, HUD published a new proposed rule on seller funded down payment assistance that again terminated the practice and this time the rule incorporated the concerns of the court in the FHA case.
Finalization of the new HUD rule, however, was rendered moot when the U.S. Senate got involved and included the termination of down payment grants in H. R. 3221, The Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008, which was signed into law by President Bush on July 30, 2008 and took effect on October 1, 2008.
And the story certainly might have ended there… but incredibly, once again it did not.
On July 31, 2008, ONE DAY after the seller funded grants were banned by congress, a new bill, H. R. 6694 was introduced into the House of Representatives by Rep. Al Green (D-TX), in an effort to reinstate seller funded down payment assistance.
With the 2008 presidential election in full swing, a mortgage industry expert and Blogger, by the name of Krista Railey, who had been following the seller funded down payment assistance companies for many years, and who was shocked by their apparent resilience, decided to write an article on her Blog, the FHA Whistleblower, which is found on the mortgage industry "insider" Website, ML-Implode.com.
ML-Implode is a site that was set-up on December 31, 2006, to keep track of mortgage lenders in the US that had started, as the site puts it, "going bust". The individuals behind ML-Implode came out of the technology and mortgage industries. They saw what was happening in the housing market and recognized what would soon follow much earlier than many others.
The ML-Implode.com site soon became one of the highest trafficked sites for information on the housing and mortgage meltdown. ML-Implode became so well known and so highly trafficked, that by 2008, many members of congress were turning to it for information on the crisis.
Railey is a mortgage industry expert who closely followed the collapse of the housing market since its beginnings. She saw seller funded down payment assistance as being harmful to borrowers, and with the housing market in free fall as of last September, she set out to write an expose intended to draw attention to the practice and she mentioned the leading providers of such programs: Nehemiah Corporation, AmeriDream, and Global Direct Sales, specifically.
Global Direct Sales was founded by Christopher Russell and Ryan Hill, who together own 64% of the "agency". These are same two gentlemen that founded AmeriDream about a decade ago, another seller funded down payment assistance company that operated under the nonprofit/charity business model eliminated by the IRS ruling issued in May of 2006.
Again, according to the Forbes article:
Russell got rich off this racket once before. A decade ago Russell and Ryan Hill, a former mortgage loan officer now acting as Global Direct's financial officer, created a tax-exempt charity called AmeriDream that would help home buyers come up with down payments. This outfit teamed up with a for-profit firm called Synergistic Marketing. From the seller AmeriDream got, besides reimbursement of its down payments, a fee averaging $800. It kicked 40% of that fee over to Synergistic, in which Russell and Hill were minority investors. By 2002, Russell's last year as chief executive, the charity called AmeriDream cleared $6 million on $182 million in revenues. When he cashed out of Synergistic that year he collected $3 million. Hill, who left AmeriDream with Russell, made $11 million off his Synergistic stake, which he sold in 2004.
All of this came to light in 2004, when the Senate Finance Committee held the Congressional Hearing on Charity and Oversight Reform, which Russel referred to as "a joke of a hearing," in a letter to Railey last September. Russel and Hill left Ameridream between 2003-2004 when the scandal became public. The arbitration decision states that Russell's non-compete agreement with Ameridream ended on March 30th, 2006, just before he and Hill made their deal with the Penobscot Tribal Council.
According to AmeriDream's 990 tax filings, between 2000-2004, Synergistic Marketing received $26,483,916 in marketing fees from AmeriDream. The tax returns contain disclosures that the two officers of Ameridream were Members in the Synergistic Marketing LLC.
All of this and more was chronicled by Railey in her article that first appeared on the ML-Implode Website on September 9, 2008. In her article, she referred to the Global Direct Sales' practices as being a "scam". Within a few hours, ML-Implode's management saw the "scam" reference and asked Railey to remove it from the article and republish it, which she did. The article was republished on September 15, 2008.
But, it was too late. Christopher Russell, who was watching the site carefully, saw the article posted, downloaded a copy and within a few days ML-Implode was notified that Global Direct Sales had filed for an injunction attempting to "restrain and enjoin defendants from disseminating untrue, false, and/or misleading statement regarding plaintiff's, their business, and their business dealings". Russell was seeking an injunction in Maryland courts, and ML-Implode was being sued by Global Direct Sales for defamation.
Why did Russell care so much what some Blogger on some Website had to say about Global Direct Sales LLC? Because with the economic meltdown now dominating the discussions in congress and all across America, members of congress were reading the Bloggers on the ML-Implode.com site, and they weren't saying positive things about seller funded down payment assistance.
In his letter threatening legal action written to Krista Railey on September 10, 2008 as a result of her article on ML-Implode.com:
"Spend the money for a good lawyer because I use the best and I am coming after you hard."
Mr. Christopher Russell
It is obvious that Russell filed the lawsuit alleging defamation in an attempt to silence or at least intimidate Railey and others on the ML-Implode site… and it worked, to at least some degree. Under the advice of counsel, they removed any references that used such words as "scam," and although the court did not grant Russell's injunction, to this day ML-Implode is cautious as to what they publish. Russell has deep pockets… ML-Implode does not, and win, lose or draw… it costs money to defend yourself in court.
Russell and others in the industry, were working behind the scenes to garner support for the H.R. 6694 bill that was seeking to bring back the seller funded down payment assistance programs that congress had banned a few months earlier on July 30, 2008. Railey and other industry Bloggers were trying to get the message out that seller funded down payment assistance programs, especially in today's housing market, were harmful in far too many cases. The battle ended, however, when the 110th Session of Congress ended in December 2008, and the H.R. 6694 bill was closed.
The end of the story… come on… you know better than that by now…
Predictably, the legislation allowing reinstatement of seller funded down payment assistance reemerged with the new congress this year, albeit with minor changes, as H. R. 600. It was introduced by Rep. Al Green (D-TX) and is supported by 14 Democratic congressional representatives and one Republican, which has allowed its supporters to slap the ever-popular "bipartisan" label on the proposed bill.
Backers of the bill also include the National Associations of Realtors, Homebuilders, and Mortgage Bankers… three associations that would clearly benefit from being able to sell homes without down payments using FHA insured loans. (At this time, there are no organizations opposing the bill's passage, although I was thinking of starting one. I might call it: "The Fellowship of Future Foreclosure Victims".)
H.R. 600 has been positioned by those in the seller funded down payment assistance industry as being an important component of the economic stimulus sorely needed by our nation in these difficult times. It is also described by its backers in congress as being critical to many first time homebuyers and minorities who would not be able to buy homes without it. Supporters in congress say that the HUD and GAO reports that show these loans as having a default rate three times higher than other loans are wrong and should not be trusted.
In fact, the lobbying efforts to get this new bill passed are obviously as well organized, as they are insidious. As an example, Railey and other Bloggers, publishing articles in opposition to H.R. 600's passage, quickly find numerous comments appearing on their Blogs that are very much in favor of H.R. 600. When the IP addresses of these comments have been researched, however, it has been easily ascertained that the comments are often being made by employees of seller funded down payment assistance companies, most notably the Nehemiah Corporation.
Of course, proponents of H.R. 600 say only positive things about the bill's impact, but The Washington Post, on January 8, 2008, reported the following:
For years, the FHA has tried to eliminate these programs, without success. Now it is attempting once more to write rules that would ban this funding. But those rules would be moot if the House provision survives, creating unprecedented financial problems for the agency, argued Preston, who was joined by FHA Commissioner Brian Montgomery.
By law, the FHA must break even each year, meaning it must collect as much in premiums as it pays to cover foreclosure-related losses. If at the start of a fiscal year the FHA estimates it cannot do that, the Senate and House appropriations panels make up the shortfall using taxpayer money.
Because of the poor performance of seller-funded down-payment loans, the FHA may ask for $1.4 billion in appropriations for the fiscal year beginning Oct. 1 -- the first such appropriation in its history.
In truth, the only people that benefit from seller funded down payment assistance programs are the realtors, the mortgage companies, and the homebuilders who all profit from a sales commission or a closed deal that otherwise never would have happened.
The GAO, the IRS, FHA and HUD have all completed studies that show clearly that the default rates on these loans are every bit as bad as the worst of the sub-prime mortgages. Of course, since Realtors, mortgage companies and home builders are all in trouble this year, they see the banning of seller funded down payment assistance programs as detracting from their incomes, and they've pointed their lobbyists on every Congressional Representative that will listen.
It would seem that anyone who takes the time to understand the ramifications of H.R. 600's passage would stand on a chair and scream at the top of their lungs: NO!
Providing mortgages to people who cannot save enough to satisfy a 3% down payment requirement is a bad idea, but putting people into homes that are underwater from the day they move in is even worse… especially in today's declining market.
Margaret Burns Director, Office of Single Family Program Development for HUD, in her written statement before the Committee on Financial Services Subcommittee on Housing and Community Opportunity in the United States House of Representatives:
While well intended, the programs have had a significant negative impact on FHA's business for the last several years. Loans made to borrowers who rely on these types of seller-funded gifts perform very poorly. The foreclosure rates on these loans are more than twice those of all other home purchase loans insured by FHA.
Moreover, FHA experiences higher loss rates from the sale of the properties associated with these particular foreclosures, a reflection of the overvaluation that occurs with these programs. The higher foreclosure rates represent a financial burden for FHA and taxpayers, but of greater concern, they hurt the families who lose their homes and the neighborhoods in which those homes are located.
The core problem with these programs is not that the borrowers they serve are riskier or less credit-worthy; it's that the programs disrupt the natural negotiations between buyers and sellers in a way that results in inflated sales prices and thus higher mortgage amounts.
Seller-funded downpayment assistance programs flourish in weak real estate markets. In weak markets, low buyer demand means that sellers are less likely to get full asking price for their homes and are therefore willing to participate in programs that will help them sell for a higher price. As such, the property overvaluation associated with seller-funded gift programs occurs in markets that are least able to adjust to and accommodate pricing variations.
For example, in fiscal year 2006, more than 50 percent of FHA's purchase mortgage business in both Ohio and Indiana was for borrowers who relied on nonprofit seller-funded gifts. In these states, home values have been stagnant or declining. In soft housing markets, borrowers with no or negative equity who face any kind of financial hardship have fewer options to recover and can slip into foreclosure fairly quickly, despite the best efforts of FHA's loss mitigation programs. High foreclosure rates in these communities contribute to additional deterioration in home values and a vicious cycle of property depreciation.
Haven't we, as a nation learned that providing a home mortgage to someone who can barely afford it does not help that individual, to the contrary, it puts that person at tremendous risk, and it is the root cause of the economic meltdown from which we may not recover for a very long time.
Yet the 15 Democrats and one Republican continue to champion the legislation as being important to our nation's economic recovery? I can see how it might help lead to the economic recovery of some realtors, mortgage brokers, and builders, but beyond that, how can people being put into underwater mortgages be seen as being helpful to anyone else?
Already, far too many people who did nothing wrong are being swept under as a result of these types of lending practices. It is inconceivable that the American people would stand by while congress passes into law a practice that would assure our nation of further pain in the future, to say nothing of the borrowers duped into such a high-risk arrangement in these troubled times.
I urge you to tell your representatives: Absolutely NO on H.R. 600!
Because the only people that it stimulates are those that profit from its passage.
LINKS TO RELATED SOURCES AND EXHIBITS:
Prohibition of Seller Funded Down Payment Assistance
Questions and Answers from Federal Housing Administration Website:
http://portal.hud.gov/portal/page?_pageid=73,7597819&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL
Housing Secretary Expresses Concerns With Mortgage Bill
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/08/AR2008070802683.html?hpid=sec-business
Testimony Before the Subcommittee on Housing and Community Opportunity, Committee on Financial Services, House of Representatives Seller-Funded Down-Payment Assistance Changes the Structure of the Purchase Transaction and Negatively Affects Loan Performance Statement of William B. Shear, Director Financial Markets and Community Investment http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d071033t.pdf
AN EXAMINATION OF DOWNPAYMENT GIFT PROGRAMS ADMINISTERED BY
NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATIONS
http://www.hud.gov/offices/hsg/comp/rpts/dpassist/dpa2.pdf
WRITTEN STATEMENT OF MARGARET BURNS
Director, Office of Single Family Program Development, Office of Housing, U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development Hearing before the Committee on Financial Services
Subcommittee on Housing & Community Opportunity, United States House of Representatives "Homeowner Down Payment Assistance Programs and Related Issues" June 22, 2007
http://www.hud.gov/offices/cir/test062207.cfm
IRS Targets Down-Payment Assistance Scams; Seller-Funded
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=156675,00.html
FHA Program Key in Surge of Foreclosures, Denver Post
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4228048
Going Tribal
The government keeps trying to crack down on down-payment assistance programs. But Christopher Russell is one step ahead of the law.
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2008/0901/042.html
The Article by Krista Railey that Started the Law Suit Against ML-Implode: http://whistleblower.ml-implode.com/?p=142
Letter from Christopher Russell Threatening Legal Action over Railey's Article:
http://whistleblower.ml-implode.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/christopher-russell-wb-comment.pdf
Krista Railey's Declaration Filed in UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF MARYLAND in Response to Injunction:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/iehi-img-mli/article/penobscot-20081008/railey_declaration.pdf
Defendant's Exhibits Used to Defend Injunction:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/iehi-img-mli/article/penobscot-20081008/railey_exhibits.pdf
Railey Article Documents Penobscot Indian Tribe Down Payment Grant Program:
http://whistleblower.ml-implode.com/?page_id=122
Article Documents Judge Denies Injunction:
http://ml-implode.com/viewnews/2008-11-07_PreliminaryInjunctionAgainstMLImplodeDenied.html
Krista Railey's Blog, FHA Whistleblower on the ML-Implode Website:
http://whistleblower.ml-implode.com/
Congressman Al Green's Statement on H.R. 600 and Reinstating Seller Funded Down Payment Assistance:
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/tx09_green/pr080108dpabill.html
Major Seller-Funded Down Payment Company Sinks to New Low – Comments on Blogs Come From Backers of Bill.
http://whistleblower.ml-implode.com/
Wall Street Journal on Nehemiah's Online Campaign
http://blogs.wsj.com/developments/2008/08/14/nehemiah-hits-web-to-save-downpayment-assistance/
IRS Status of Charitable Organizations (from HUD Website)
FHA approved mortgagees that seek FHA mortgage insurance on loans secured by single-family houses, on which down payment assistance has been provided to the borrower in the form of gifts, are required to determine that the gifts are from sources acceptable to FHA. http://www.hud.gov/offices/hsg/sfh/np/irstatus.cfm
September 29, 2008, Washington Post Article: FHA Down Payment Rule To Ban Seller Financing
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/28/AR2007092801828.html
Down Payment Assistance Programs Outlawed
http://themortgageinsider.net/mortgage/down-payment-assistance-programs-outlawed/
LIST OF CONGRESSIONAL REPRESENTATIVES CURRENTLY LISTED AS SPONSORS OF H.R. 600:
Rep. Charles Wilson (D-OH)
Rep. Al Green (D-TX)
Rep. Gary Miller (R-CA)
Rep. Gerald Connolly (D-VA)
Rep. Henry Johnson (D-GA)
Rep. Barton Gordon (D-TN)
Rep. Jim Costa (D-CA)
Rep. Barbara Lee (D-CA)
Rep. Yvette Clarke (D-NY)
Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA)
Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL)
Rep. Robert Wexler (D-FL)
Rep. Albio Sires (D-NJ)
Rep. Eddie Johnson (D-TX)
Rep. Sanford Bishop (D-GA)
Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-MS)
I don't understand the downpayment issue. If you truly want to purchase a home, save, save, save. If homeowners, barring unemployment, etc, have no vested interest in a home it is easier to walk away.
The worst mortgage to invest in period is a zero down anything.
No skin in the game is always a bad idea. But how we are going to get out from under all that zero down fiction that is out there? I have no idea....
40 hours ya say? for that kinda work I woulda expected some sex at the least... Maybe one hooker with a heart of gold Bj halfway through.......around paragraph 9,871 maybe...woulda spiced it up a bit ;)
And lets see I have seen billy and A/P disagree and now billy and you agree all in a matter of days...thats it we are all goin to die...
So, Mandelman, this bill is separate from the overall real-estate legislation coming from the Obama Administration? Do you have any idea of the admin's response to the bill?
Thanks for the heads-up. One point I'm stuck on is how many people not able to come up with the minimal 3% downpayment are still in the market for a house? I sure wouldn't be, not with the market still in freefall...
It will be interesting to see if you receive any comments from Nehemiah...
FHA has been offering low down payment options on mortgages for at least the past 10-15 years.....my brother purchased a home with only 3% down....he is neither a deadbeat, nor did he default on his loan. Again, it seems like we are trying to make this program into something BAD...????
You are talking about the Nehemiah and AmeriDream mortgage programs...typically, these programs are geared toward people applying for loans through the FHA. I DID read the article....I am familiar with these programs because I have looked into them in the past. These are programs that ask the seller to contribute a percentage of the home sale, then turn around and give it to the buyer as a downpayment...effectively a no downpayment purchase. I get it...I just don't get your outrage....care to explain that?
Hello Laura, You hit the nail on the head. There is NO VIABLE market for housing.
Housing is a supply and demand market.
Value in Real Estate is in direct relationship to S.Ft price, Location, School district, Neighborhoods, as well as cost of living index for that given market..
Anyone that buys a home today should be taking a long position in the ownership of that home.
In a down trending market that has not hit bottom, it is essential to have an equity stake in a property to create a buffer against the unknown.
Job layoff, sickness, divorce etc. Every day occurrences that require equity to offset loss in a refinance situation..
Hud low income, low cost housing programs are available for the purchase of stress properties, and should be utilized for the purchase of low cost housing. Kill the Bill... R.Max
Thanks for taking the time to spell it out, Mandelman. That was a lot of work. I thought it was self-evident and didn't need that sort of line-by-line, but evidently I was wrong.
Uh...um...I get it completely mandelman...see comment #1.5...did you mean Laura?!
Speaking of builders adding all kinds of sweeteners to entice people to buy their houses, have you heard about what Toll Brothers is doing?
Hello Bill. take a moment to read your own attachment. It is a HOOK without barbs. Get it? The builder is taking away the concern of future unemployment by insuring against of possible future lay off. No big deal.
Oh I get it alright. I simply don't get how anyone would be so stupid as to bite.
Bill , It's the same deal that Hyundai is offering its customers on it's out of work return your car program. Everyone is swimming in the swamp...
Do I understand your 3.12 to say the builder will take the home back if the buyer loses his job?
No. The builder will cover your mortgage as well as cost associated with that mortgage for up to 6 months of unemployment. It is simply another form of insurance. Credit card companies offer this option on many cards for a monthly fee.
The builder requires that you finance through them to qualify for this insurance.
Thanks, R.M. The builder insurance is probably a good idea, as long as the buyer has good credit and long-term employment (IMO). The CC deal....errrrrrrrr....just another way to catch some undeserving soul trying to get by.
Very well written - and informative.
As a former real estate agent, I fully understand why they support it - it's called MORE SALES! Gosh - outside of the poor people who don't have squat anyway, the only people who could lose on one of these deals would be the taxpayers - and hey, they don't care. It's all GOVERNMENT money anyway, right? The government can just print up MORE money if they need it, right? It's not like WE as individual tax payers have to pay for this, right?
He Nofluer. Well put. Just one little thing.... The printing of money deflates the $ in my wallet, How about you. R.Max.. Still REALTOR.
RM & Nofluer -- The more dollars printed and in circulation lessens the value, and the fact that our tax dollars go to paying interest to the Fed instead of lessening the defecit only makes matters worse. On the other side, more people are being born every day, and the economy is slipping into an abyss, pressuring a need for more spending. So what is the answer?
current status: http://politics4all.com/bills/111hr600#/tab_status
The two-party system is problematic. I refuse to take part in either.
agreed, sneilarreal.
The two-party system is problematic.
True!
I refuse to take part in either.
Unfortunately with the current system it makes you ill relevant (not you personally but your 3rd party ideas).
Only for the moment...
sneilarreal,
There is much about some of their ideas I like, what I do not like is their inability to win. Unfortunately!
I just don't believe the solutions can be found in the two major parties. It will take time but better parties with solutions will/are coming to light. It just takes some time but it will happen. And they will start winning eventually and that should help bring about change.
So what are you doing? Just hanging out? 200 + years and waiting. How about we work on changing the system in place ?.. Hay, How about your opinion on H.R.600 ?
I stay focused on third party efforts and other programs that focus on liberty.
As far as H.R. 600..it is more of the same...just more of what I have come to expect from the two-party system.
The two-party system's ideology never really changes..just their tactics and methodology.
sneil -- It' the difference between having 2 kids or 3. There's never an answer with 2, but things get resolved with 3.
I have only two (thank goodness) but I agree with the analogy.
OK ? still no answers, Green peace, Libertarian,Communist, .......... What ? CL1 .. So your theory is that with 3 a compromise must be reached to move forward? Majority vote? How about direct representation of the people thru the Internet? now there's an idea.
By the way, what is your opinion on the issue at hand?
Do you feel that Mandelmans concerns are justified? Or that the bill will die on the floor before it is passed. Or do you not have an opinion on this issue? Just currios,
R.M.----- My tracker doesn't work, and just noticed your 6.10. I would like some time to think about this and will return at some point with an opinion. Thanks.
Remember, this comment is directed at two people. party afiliation Sniel, Party of three? your question. Thanks, Raymond
Raymond -- Ok, I thought it was just directed at me, CL1.
As for my opinion on the issue at hand, Mandelman's 3.6 says it all. I'm choked up - it got to me. My sentiment: we, as a nation, can't afford to risk destroying another family or human being financially, physically and emotionally by potentially setting them up for failure. Kill H.R. 600 It's not worth the risk. Period.
Thank you CL1. have a good day..
The American Dream is earned, and if you have no skin in the game there is no incentive to stay with it.
Looking at the list of sponsors of this bill (two are Waters, Johnson) it does not surprise me how bad it is and their reckless disregard for logic in support of supposedly helping someone. Doing something to help people does not negate the need for common sense.
There is no free lunch
these folks will never learn, they just don't get it. nothing invested no reason to be responsible, they'll think they are renters.... as if 3% wasn't cheap enough....
there is a certain amount of insanity to all of this. The market keeps pushing for more, more, more as if there is no limit to consumer spending. Hell I heard a BOA or one of them commercial the other day about using your home equity to get those repairs.. get that new water heater or whatever..... it's greed insanity, a nation leveraged in every way.... we need to gain some personal, corporate and federal sanity to this huge tax and spend and greed spree...
A certain amount of insanity?
in two capacities,
1 in a large proportion
2 by a smaller number of people.
welcome to the Matrix .... :>))
No it is obvious that you all DON'T get it. Why don't you try that thing called investigating and reporting from both sides and see what you really learn- this is all speculation and ignorance.
Whew...alot of research! Well written Mandelman.
I'm aware of alot of the SFDPA practices, but had no idea about the Indian Tribal Government evasion tactic.
"If there's a will, there's a way", when will we learn?
Just thought I'd let you know, when I went to post it told me I had 62 mins. to edit this post, lol, are we overloading the server?
Friend request accepted, thanks.
Well Mandelman...it's Monday morning and both sides of the sword have just been sharpened.
I know the crisis the SFDPA has been responsible for, I know the casulties, (no statistics, but do we need them at this point?) I have worked for one of the top 3 homebuilders in my area for 9 years as Office Mgr./Purchasing Mgr./Job Foreman Asst./and worked alot in the real estate end of it as his wife is an agent and the majority of her sales are his homes. Maybe 30% of our sales were SFDPA, but since we developed the sub-divisions and are still building in there we can keep up with forclosures, resales, etc. I can honestly say there have not been many.
Today I learned that my job will terminate at the end of this month. (I'm an accountant and am sure there's no shortage of jobs in bankruptcy, tax recovery, etc., lol). As much as I agree with you that this has to stop, I also see the other edge of the sword which is throwing the breaks on aspects of the housing recovery, not to mention contiunued loss of jobs. We have put approx. 150 people out of jobs over the last 6 months. As you know alot of these people are subs with their own business's which crumble as we fall. The small business's do not have a chance in this economy, none.
There has to be an answer. This country has aspects of capitalism, socialism, and every other "ism" you can think of (how can we not be when we are a country open to anyone who chooses to come here and they have a right to fight for their beliefs). I digress, my question to you is this, in the current economy, what is your suggestion to bridge no SFDPA and stimulation of sells?
Because I see first hand the effects, I agree that this is one of the most important areas of recovery, and as I have read many of your columns, have a great deal of respect for the time and reseach you put into the topics you discuss. I'm seriously interesed, with all your knowledge and research, what your ideas would be to make this beneficial for sellers and buyers.
As Yogi said it's deja vu all over again . These people just don't get it. What ever happened to saving and working up to home ownership and self reliance ? It's all gimme gimme and when I'm over my head help help it's not my fault .
well 10-30% down is back whether ya like it or not. With any less no one is going to think lending on real estate is a very good idea. So if you want to get outa this mess getting used to saving will have to come back....right after you pay off all those high interest bank cards of course....
but lets be honest old guys... it is the whole rotten easy credit have it now system...
It is from mcmansions zero down to leasing 6 figure cars, and leasing 15k cars.
Its just a mess and no amount of work will put it back as it was, which is probably a good thing.
Is it the system or is the consumer who thinks they need it all now , not a little at a time , not some now and get that one later , but I want it now ?
You drive thru a new housing development and all the 20-35 yr olds with several kids 2 new cars and a big house . What happened to a starter house ? Everyone thinks Charge it and they are all payment poor . Allot of bad choices usually ends in failure.
Very well researched, well written.
This is not the only bill that is flying under the radar. People need to go and read the other bills that have been proposed while we sheep are herded and focused on what is happening with the economy. I can post a link to the website that I use, if you want to read them.
You can get 106% loans right now from your FHA.. it never went away.. this just expands it.
ANd remember it was BUSH who started the "american dream downpayment iniative"
ADDI
look it up
IT is actually very strict and these people are defaulting elss than anyone else.
WHERE WAS YOUR OUTRAGE WHEN BUSH PUSHED FOR AND PASSED THE ADDI?
But anyways like i said before./. call your local FHA .. you can get a no downpayment loan right now IF YOU QUALIFY and it is STRICT as hell
But really their is no reason why poor people who have no hope of ever saving up a downpayment but who are otherwise have great credit and always pay their bills to get assisatnce with the increasing large downpayments.
Thanks for spinning me but i was dizzy long before i got here.
Joules: The FHA process was a total PIA when I applied many years ago...with good income, excellent credit...I can't IMAGINE what kind of hoops you have to jump through now.
Mandelman,
Here is the link that I use to keep track of what is going on. You can search for any bill by # or list them all.
Have fun! I know that I have. Some are unbelievable.
It's the THOMAS website at the Library of Congress.
Mandelman,
I don't know why the link didn't post but here it is again.
One more time. gpoaccess.gov
Long-term loss of short-term memory.
ph-f-f-f-ft...a-a-ah-h-h! (munch) what?? ;-D
Martin.. Why am I sitting in front of the T.V. watching Warren B, attempting to talk his way out oh his own buy and hold polocy? I wonder if Warren likes Oreo's..
Back to the issue at hand.. Let me respectfully ask you a question. If language was included in H.R.600 to exclude OUTSIDE sources of contribution to the buyers down payment, and I mean by that, anyone other than the seller should not be allowed to contribute towards the buyers down payment . Would H.R. 600 be an acceptable initiative?
F.H.A. stated that the down payment assistant progrm inflated the value of housing. WRONG, and here is why. Certified property appraisers adjust any seller contributions out of the gross sales price of a subject property, when used as a comp. That'ss correct, Ant and all seller contributions are deducted from the appraised value of the subject property.
Your assertion of added debt loan however is correct. although in todays market, I must tell you that it is the norm for Mortgage brokers as well as Real Estate Agents to offset the sellers contribution by reducing mortgage cost, Points charged, Closing fees, as well as reduced sales commisions on both the Buyer and the sellers side of the deal. Something to think about..
Mandelman,
Here is one you might want check out. H.R. 15, "National Health Care"
There is nothing wrong with downpayment assistance or with FHA financing that is limited to 106 percent. Both came in handy for me 8 years ago when coming off a divorce I needed to land a home in my son's school district. At the time buying a home made more sense than renting and the rental stock in my area was substandard compared to what you could have bought for the same monthly payment.
Bottom line is that I used both to land a modest home with a fixed rate FHA mortgage that I still can afford. I still had to qualify via my income level and credit score.
Really folks, the problem is that there were predatory mortgages given out to people who didn't know what they were getting themselves in for and that is part of the reason why we are here economically. If the only kind of mortgage available for a home was a fixed rate mortgage, do you really think that we would be in this large of a mess here?
I bought my first home with a VA mortgage under similar circumstances. I had decent income and minimal debt, but no down payment. Not to mention that VA, FHA, and FMHA had pretty strict standards for the valuation and condition of the property.
It wasn't just the variable rate morgages that started the snowball; it was those in combination with a complete lack of income/debt standards and a failure of appraisal integrity. Like the guy who bought a way over-valued home at $700k who only had an income of $14k I read about somewhere today. How could anyone ever have expected him to make payments?
Realtor response. My father also bought our family home on V.A. in the 50's. That is not the issue at hand.
The issue is the enticement of buyers into a home that they can't afford in the long run. while putting $ into the pockets of these shell non profits.
A scam is a scam.
Although the Bill mentioned by Mandelman does not have wide support on the floor, major lobby groups. National Home Builders Assoc, as well as National Association of Realtors have voiced thieir support of H.R.600.
As a member of both groups, I am here to tell you, that many veteran Realtors as well as many builders that have homes sitting in abandoned tracts take exception with these national associations.
The dangers are self evident. We need long term viable fixes. Many low income family home assistance programs exist in our system today. We do not need another program clouded with gray areas of qualification to be added to the mix.
Insanity. You just don't borrow more than a property is worth, with payments you can't make. No one should be encouraging that.
Optomistic ? About what?.. Take a moment to read my first and second comments. Answer please. Thanks. Ray
Thank you Martin
Insanity. You just don't borrow more than a property is worth, with payments you can't make. No one should be encouraging that.
Did you actually read the article? That is exactly what happened.
Great Work Here!
It really is. Clipped to several groups.
Isn't this the same reason the housing market is so messed as it is now. Bought our home when I was young and worked like hell to make the payments. We did it the right way and still own the same home. When I purchased the home the interest rate was 13% and 20% of the purchase for the down payment. Times sure have changed. Haven't seen any rewards from the government.
Well Martin, you've been busy. Lot's of hard and good work as I too am a Realtor who opposes most things on NAR's agenda. But,. sometimes you have to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em. I have done several FHA's, then and now.. FHA is very strict about not allowing the Seller to finance any of the Downpayment but they do allow Sellers to contribute up to all of the Buyer's closing costs which amount to typically between 2 and 3% of the sale's price too. And oftentimes, Sellers won't even agree to that, so really most buyer's need to expect to bring at least 6% to the table for "most" transactions these days at the very least. I can say on the side of buyer responsibility, the more the buyer contributes the better, but its not always the caveat on the seller downpayment contribution where I find all the fault. Example, when there is a residual of percentage vs. an exact amount written in the buy/sell contract, oftentimes rather than the residual going towards the Seller's downpayment (FHA restricted) the lenders ALWAYS finds ways to use it up in things called Junk fees for themselves. Which irks me to no end. I'd much rather see the buyer and seller make their deal go thru with what help they can be to each other than giving away residuals to lenders. In a case where there is a residual, example: Buyer's closing costs are $6500 and the Seller has agreed to pay 3% of the sale's price towards buyer's closing, we may end up having several thousands of dollars difference, depending on sale's price. So what then happens to the residual? Lenders will say they apply it to discount points (lowers the interest rate) or they find someother fancy fee to throw it in under. In my world, yes, this is what I do for my bucks, this is how I make my living but I damn sure would rather see buyer and seller both happy at the end of the day. It's negotiating. It's coming up with what buyer will pay and seller will sell. I only am a paper pusher that meets both party's needs. And I help people understand this complex process.. I for one, am damn proud of what I do. I get to help others as I help myself and this my friends, is a win/win situation. I make no apologies. Maybe I doth protest too much but its only after hearing so many misinformed snap judgments against my profession. My friend did not make any exception for his Realtor buddies, old or new.
As far as the backass underhanded ways of Russell or whomever, You're never going to stop them from trying and you're never going to get every congressperson from either party to agree that it's not helpful in some way to have incentive programs. The first time homebuyer's incentive of Obama's is working, we're seeing alot of movement right now.. I have adult kids. People of my age are definitely contributing to our adult kids to make these downpayments as it's a damn good time to buy! So I'm not so sure I can agree wholeheartedly but then what do I know, I'm just a lowly Realtor. ;-)
I think more than anything, its having an INFORMED public and not scaring the bejeezus out of everyone or causing more panic than necessary. Already people are HIGHLY misinformed as to the facts of this housing crisis and the further we go, the more is revealed that at the very bottom of this, were predatory lenders sucking the life blood out of some unsuspecting folks. It has alot more to do with Lender options, such as ARMS and negative AMs than it does with FHA/VA guidelines. They've always been strict. I think that there are many who don't take no-vest buyers as a threat or "the" catalyst of all that ails the housing crisis. Many find this has been a spin to take the focus off the real problem of the secondary market fraud. That is where the crux of this belongs.
***Okay, some of you may have heard enough, so please move on without further ado on my part, but for those whose interest is picqued, let me continue a bit more here and I'll explain this a bit deeper.
I work in a highly VA loan recipient area due to the high influx of military in my area. VA's contribution from the buyer is zilch in dollars (NO downpayment and NO closing fees) other than a funding fee that gets thrown in the life of the loan. NO mortgage insurance, period. (FHA loan recipients will alway have to pay MIP.) VA folks are suffering right along with the rest of America as they can't sell either when they need to. However, I can't think of a single solitary time when my VA people defaulted because they didn't contribute a dime but rather, their time to the US of A. In fact, VA can default easier on short sales because VA does not require being paid back if the Vet defaults... Short sales for FHA/Conventional, are you kidding? You're much better off foreclosing if your short sale residual is more than you can ever foresee paying back as you will be required to or it will follow you the rest of your life. So there is an example that NO money contributions aren't always a key factor of "easier default". Okay, with that being said, I take exception to the data and question it's entire legitimacy. IS it credible? Okay, some say so. Yes, it is likelier that those who haven't vested, can walk easier, but do they really? Most of these people who are defaulting aren't doing so by choice.. They, like MOST of America are stuck in a DISRUPTION of our economy due to many factors of greed. AN ANOMOLY, not the NORM! I think its disengenious to assume any data coming out right now accurately captures the realism behind anything. It's easily corruptable and persuadable. Too easy.
I also take offense when Realtors, home-builders are cast in one fell swoop of rape, pillage and plunder. I know I don't, never have. I've never said "goody, FHA's making it easier or VA's making it easier for me to take advantage of people, whoohoo, I might be able to stay in my own home now!" In fact, I make it a huge point in my life to make sure I don't. .. My biggest concern is keeping people from becoming house-poor. Also in this day and age, isn't that getting just a wee bit hard to figure out, who IS worthy?
I know people suffering now who can't make their mortgages and have vested 50 years of hard work, sweat equity and big bucks into their homes and can't make it right along with the young couple who thought now was a time to make a move in home ownership.
Call me a lowlife Realtor, but I do believe most middle class people's personal wealth is built upon homeownership and I champion all underdogs of life as I also think homeownership creates a sense of responsibility in being good citizens. A sense of balance in making it in America. It creates self-reliance and self-pride. I will cry foul any day to those who want to put this crisis on the backs of unsuspecting players of this life who were taught, this is how you play this game. For the most part, it works. As I said, this was anomoly. NO shame should be brought the middle class or anyone who got caught in this. NONE.
I know that appraisals have tightened up something fierce. Those guys took alot of heat in this crisis that may not have been their faults. I'm seeing appraisers not move on a difference between sale's price and their appraisals with as little as 2K to thwart a deal! So the idea, that the seller can simply throw all costs on top of sale's price is a thing of the past. However, I will say it surely was commonplace. But really, we're talking about 10K or less in most sales in my area. Can you really define the difference between an alike home of 180K and 190K? What, corian countertops did it? Fruit trees and a flagstone patio you picked up at Home depot for $200 bucks?
I agree there were some awful practices, you know this Martin, but this is only one small portion of a huge systemic problem. I find this to be the least of the problems to be honest with you. But, you never cease to amaze me the lengths you go to, to make a very interesting perspective.
Realtor to Realtor....... Let's talk shall we?. Our business has become very tough. You know that, I know that. As a professional that has been in and around Real Estate markets for over three decades, I can say without reservation, that I have never seen the market conditions that exist in today .
Don't take this comment out of context.
Yes, I have lived and worked through many up and down cycles. What has caused the stalemate in today's housing market?
Excess capacity has resulted in the excess inventory of unsold new homes.
Excess inventory of used homes, 1.3 million, resulting from a lack of demand in today's housing market.
Why do we have that lack of demand in housing? You and I know the answer to that question, but let me state it one more time for those that have been sleeping under a tree for the last two or three years.
1. Cost of living indexes have been off center for years. As a result of an increase of cost in everything from gasoline to milk , to insurance to medical costs, Consumer income has not come close to keeping up with the cost of living.
Most folks have simply had more expense than income at the end of the month, and have made up that difference with credit cards.
The added debt of carry over expenses have hit a wall as wages and hours worked have been cut back wit a down turn in every sector of the U.S. economy.
2. Qualifying for a Home loan.
Even in a stated income loan, most self employed have one, a 43% or better debt to income ratio, coupled with a decent F.I.C.O. score is required to obtain a stated income loan. This animal has effectively been exterminated. Fact: stated income loans are dead..
3. As everything in our economy, even in a non inflation year, Most building materials increase no less than 3 to 4 % . This is a constant.
From time to time in our world market, Supply and demand can and does hit an imbalance.
Example: China's unprecedented growth created a demand for raw and manufactured materials that resulted in a construction material cost increase of 28% in 2005.
32% in 2006, finally tapering off last half of 2007.
Ad this to a organic increase in wages to offset inflation, this resulted in the unprecedented increase in home cost. Product to market.
4. Certainly some Builders , developers, etc, took advantage of a bull housing market. But like you Realtor, most just made a descent living.
5. Lot cost? Higher.
6. Simple really. We both know that historically home ownership has been a very safe financial venture. With an average increase in value of about 4% .Owning a home in a normal market made great sense.
It was a no brawner. Increase in value along with the tax interest deduction, over took the cost of the mortgage. You were living in your home for the long term. And when you retired, your equity would secure a nice spot for you in Florida.
7. If you lived in a population in flite market, Lets say L.A. or Rawley, The demand for housing in your area would be conducive to quicker growth in your return on investment. you could make some real money. Well that also came to a screaming stop.
8. So let me recap. Wages fell, Cost of living increased across the board. Builders over built demand, Inflation as well as foriegn material needs increased the cost of construction. Lending standards tightened.
9. Fewer prospective buyers could now qualify for housing. Housing is no longer affordable.
There Robin I said out. The cost of home ownership is out of reach for most consumers. And that is not going to change soon. Home ownership is not for everyone.
Today, the afordable homes on market are the rusult of anothers loss. Be it a Bank or a home owner, some one is walking away with a loss, so that someone else may gain.
I like you, care for the people that I serve through my Real Estate business. I however am finding fewer reasons to find pride in my chosen profession.
I could go on for hours, But I will save that for later. You have highlighted some viable points, However , I am not sure where you are going with the issue at hand. For it? Against it? . R.max
HI Raymond, I respect your point of view as I do Martin's or anyone else's but I think we're talking pocket areas of the US that went completely bonkers and while this is true, it isn't true for the majority of the US. I'm in Seattle where we did'nt suffer the bubble but are surely negatively affected by the scope of the systemic crisis. FHA being a federally insured program may have negative affects in some of the super crazy markets of NV, LV, FL, CA. But I can't think of any lending program that was a perfect model for any of those purchasers that lost, whether it was VA, Conventional or Jumbo OR if a borrowor vested major amounts or not. I know folks who vested millions out of pocket and are losing not only their money but their way of life due to this crisis.. This crisis lies solely on the lenders and deregulation. I think most markets across the board were affected negatively, but I disagree that this the fall of the markets has much to do with contributions from outside sources for buyers. You're correct in that "stated income" certainly put people on a low road of disappointment in the end. Again, relaxed lender practices. Too much free money, too much speculation selling.
Raymond, I concur wholeheartedly with all you've had to say and there is not much to argue here in the facts of life. Yes its true the cost of living has not kept up with inflation and there was a housing surplus. Most builder's can't build without a lender so obviously there was a relax in their ability to qualify too. And in that, yes, supply and demand escalated but we've always had those trends. Real Estate is rarely in middle mode, most markets either benefit the Sellers (demand market) or the Buyers (supply.) Please note: I said that not that I think you don't get simple supply/demand economics, but rather that others are listening to us and to reiterate, there is no such thing as a constant. Life swings as does the ups and downs of the real estate market, as does the ups and downs of EVERY market. FOR my Sellers, it's like anything, buy low, sell high. DO NOT sell in this market if you don't have to. If you have to, know we're back to 2004 prices and you will not realize what you would have 2 years ago. We have to get the inventory moving for those who must sell.
And yes, many folks got over their heads. We were seeing first generation home buyers buying homes that rival their parents which was/is wrong. You and I both know there is a responsible stepping stone and that is what I try to point out to buyers as to what is sweat equity vs. market equity-- but I can't grab their hands and say "don't do this, don't be a fool, don't get suckered it" even as much as I advise them pretty comes with a price and higher risk. Getting a buyer qualified to their income to debt ratios as well as the steady road of which they traveled is not our jobs, that's the lenders. I most definitley talk about future markets and ask people to make sure they understand what may happen if there's a disaster that affects their lives whether it be a man-made disaster (to which this one is) or natural. (Katrina/Ike/living next to a dormant volcano soon to explode or a health crisis.) LIFE happens.
This thing about foreclosures rates surely has been going on since the concept of real estate began. Some people simply will not make it. So do you take the data from that, escalate it into a package that quantifies this as being the crux of the apostrophe of the housing crisis? I just do not agree that buyer contributions as incentive from any source is at the malay of this, nor will it be in the future. I don't see this as a repeat of doing bad business.. I think the truth of this needs to be discussed and discredited so people can make informed decisions. I don't want an over-reaction to things that aren't really true.
In some areas, housing became ridiculously over-inflated and therefore non-affordable. In my area, we've decreased a good bunch now. The correction has been made and we are moving real estate. As far as the pocket areas of the hardest hit? There is no easy answer as to remedy that mess. I'd be curious what the cap is on FHA in these areas. From what I see in those markets, not many would even qualify for FHA or VA.
As much as I'm usually in agreement with my friend Martin, on this one, I just can't be on a bandwagon that I don't see is a catalyst. Incentive programs have always worked to move every market in the world including retail to the auto-industry.
Let me ask you this? how many times have you turned down a buyer because you morally disagree how their getting their funding or whether or not they've vested themselves? We don't. We do our jobs which is to process the sale as best we can. We are processors, not much more. But, no, I'm not always proud of the way some folks in our biz take advantage.
Best Regards, Robin
Welcome Robin. Real Estate markets are always regional as well as neighborhood sencitive. I have never kicked a deal because I felt the folks could not qualify. But these days I insist on a bit of pre qualification. As a matter of practice. In my firm, we do not submit an offer from buyer to seller without a letter of pre-qualification from the buyers mortgage broker or bank.
As you said, It is not in our place as AGENTS, to control the financing of our clients. In fact, it is illegal to do so in the state of Oregon.
The F.H.A. cap is $440,000. nationally.
You know that Red Lining is an illegal practice. I practice my agency as a Real Estate consultant, and spend most of my time educating my prospects and clients.
No, our market in Eugene/PPortland is not as hammered as L.A. or Las Vegas. But it is as slow as watching trees grow. The biggest frustration in today's Housing market is tight to non existent financing.
One example: For the last few weeks we have been working with a single mother with 2 children. She is a young progressive Hair stylist that has excellent credit and an above average income. Her debt is minimal. Her saving is minimal to non existent.
Like I said in my earlier comment, Life is expensive. Today she pays $ 1150 per month rent, on a nice apartment for her and the boys. she would like to buy a home. Her budget and financial condition puts her into the $220,000- $235,000.
That can be a tough price range, but is a bit above mid price in the area that she is looking in.
After searching the local market within her chosen school district, We did not locate a home that fit her needs.
Large master bathroom, family room for the boys. Here's the rub.
My client decided that the solution to here needs would be to buy a lot and build the home.
Problem: At this time, NO ONE is financing lots with less than 20-30% down. Very few to NO LENDERS are offering convertible construction to 30 year fixed financing.
The program mentioned in this article would not impact this buyer. We are all giving bits and pieces of the puzzle in an attempt to complete the puzzle.
All pieces, Stimulus,F.H.A. reform, Tax grants and credits, as well as the Home owner stabilization initiative will help reduce the pile of stress properties on the national market, But will not solve all problems in all markets.. Best wishes and a successful day to you Ray.
I think they just upped that limit for FHA, but no matter the cap, chances are FHA was not the mainstay loan program used in the hotbeds.
For your client, have you tried Wells Fargo? They are lending quite nicely across the board, restrictions are limited in income documentation like the good ole days but other than that, i've not had any problems with my folks getting qualified with Wells. I'm impressed. They do FHA/VA and USDA depending on rurality status.
As far as buyer clients, the first step of any buyer is getting qualified before I even show them what homes they can afford in their qualified price range. It makes no sense to show homes until we know what they can afford and that they can qualify for pre-approval. In this day and age, I've never NOT had a buyer understand this.
You said "The program mentioned in this article would not impact this buyer" . Um, well, please explain what you mean because as it is written and discussed, I would have to highly disagree. Incentive programs are for the benefit of both parties to make a deal work.
My comment is in direct relationship to the securing of a lot. F.H.A. does not underwrite raw property. Nor does it underwrite convertible loans. Thank you for the Wells tip. I will give them a call today.
To compound the problem of today's market, Most buyers are taking a position of extreme value shopping. This of course in in response to the relentless drum pounding of the news media.
As you stated earlier. One should not attempt a sale today unless absolutely necessary, or willing to accept 2004 pricing as as the benchmark of today's current market.
You are invited to join my group FROM THE INSIGHT OUT.. Thank you. R.Max
Well, that depends on the locality. In my neighborhood in Arlington, VA there's been virtually no decline in avg. sale price on single family homes since the bubble burst. Of course, this housing is in a very desirable location proximity wise to DC and public transportation. That said, $700K only gets you maybe a 3 BR bungalow that might need some work.
Will do Raymond. Thanks for clarifying. I wanted to make sure I was understanding you and I wasn't..*LOL...glad I asked. Sometimes these conversations can get swung way out there if there is the slightest misinterpretation. So I try to always ask. I'm off for the day but will check out your blog tomorrow, with any luck for time. :-) Take care.
Bill, that's about median the closer you get to Seattle Metro.
I agree there were some awful practices, you know this Martin, but this is only one small portion of a huge systemic problem. I find this to be the least of the problems to be honest with you. But, you never cease to amaze me the lengths you go to, to make a very interesting perspective.
If this is only a small part of a larger systemic problem, why is it that the FHA is specifically saying that this small part of a larger systemic problem is causing the first loss in its history?
Sorry but smooth talk don't equal the truth.
If buyers and sellers want to engage in this practice, have at it, but not with government-insured mortgages (i.e. taxpayers' money)!
Another perfect example of the moral hazard resulting from government intervention in markets. When will we learn?
There was a key stat that MANDELMAN neglected to point out. That point being that there was 0 statisitical difference between FHA loans with SFDPA compared to grants from citys, fire departments, and what other non profit that a consumer may use. Why did MANDELMAN leave this important stat out from GAO report? Perhaps because that would defeat the point that he was trying to make that there is no loan default difference between SFDPA and any other program that can now be used for the 3.5% down payment.
Also the fee for the SFDPA program are only $295 a file not $400-$800 so this premise of $400-$800 file is not correct.
I still remember the day, Feb. 17, 1974, that was the day my future wife and I signed the papers for our home. We bought our house 2 months before we were married. We both were living at home with our parents when my grandmother offered to sell us one of her rental properties.
The price she wanted was $36,000, back then that was a lot of money. I had been working for Ford motor for 3 years and since I lived at home I was able to save $10,000 over that 3 year period. I thought, why not I have enough for a down payment plus.
Luckily, I had a friend who had started working at an S&L. He was 2 years older and had become a junior loan officer. He gave us a lot of advice about the how, what and where of buying a home. He told us that we shouldn't just jump at the first thing we come across. He told us that we needed to research the neighborhood, research the latest real estate sale prices for homes in that area over the last 5 years, get quotes on home insurance, and the approx. amount of property tax from the county. He explained income to debt ratio, He also explained the loan application process and told us that it would take at least 30 days at the minimum to be approved for a loan, if we qualify to have the loan go before the board. He told us that the minimum down-payment, at the time, was 10%.
Since my girlfriend didn't work, I had to supply copies of the following; last 4 pay stubs, W2 form, list of creditors, and amounts owed to those creditors. We were working 60 hours a week at Ford. I had more money than I knew what to do with. (Oh the delusions of the young). After looking at my check stubs and W2 form my friend informed me that he could not use the figure on my W2 because it contained overtime. Ford puts your hourly rate on your paycheck so he took my hourly rate x so many hours per year and that was the figure he used.
My girlfriend and I were really sweating. It took 45 days to approve our loan. $155.00 per month for 30 years. I would have to pay over $55,000 for a $32,000 loan which also included property taxes. I had sticker shock for the first time in my life. The new car I had just purchased did not give me that feeling, the payment for that was $58.00 per month. When I added the two numbers together it would take 95% of one weeks pay.
I have since helped two of my daughter's purchase homes. It amazed me at the size of the homes they were looking at and also the price range. This was about 8 years ago. I knew how much my daughters were making and I also knew they could not afford the homes they were looking at. I told them they were not going to be able to afford those types of homes. They already had checked with 3 different mortgage brokers and those brokers told them that they could afford that price range of homes.
Luckily, I was able to talk to my daughters and show them that they could not afford them so they bought homes they could afford.
I confronted the mortgage brokers who told my daughters they could afford much more. I related the process that my wife and I had to go through. Their answer made me so mad that I walked out. They told me, "What you went through back then has been changed, all that documentation they asked you for is now not required. Plus we have creative ways that we can get financing now and there would be no down payment required."
The value gained from this conversation, is the insight gained from stories like yours that have been told because of articles like this one. Well done.
Your story is the story of a man that made a commitment to his future as well as the future of his family.
Perseverance as well as fortitude prevails in your personal story. Perhaps it is time for you to admit to your reading public that you do not believe in a free lunch.
That is my stance and I am willing to share it with anyone that cares to listen. R.Max
Time out ... Give me a call when you have a moment. For me it all has to do with compliance and regulation.
If you can demonstrate to me $$$$$$$ how Mr. Big is directly contributing to the passage of H.R.600 by interjecting corrupt ofshore or re chaneled Indian nation money into the Congressional pipeline.
Hookers, Champagne and limousines on THE HILL.
Than I will gladly get on the phone and plead with the N.A.R. Washington lobby to cut support out from under H.R. 600. R.Max
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